Climate Change In Pictures Options

[awake]

It would help if average people visited a library or learned earth sciences

I always liked the library to the point I wished they had a snack bar there. My card is up to date.
People think they are to good to be seen there and sit at home in front of the computer, but you can bet the people who write programs use the library keep their cards up to date.

[bebedos]

By the way, why would you even think, an adult would not know what every two year old does??; that our sun is the basic source of world's heat. For goodness sake, I would bet we all even know water is wet!!

, I bet we even go to the library.

[Dennis The Menac...]

By the way, why would you even think, an adult would not know what every two year old does??; that our sun is the basic source of world's heat. For goodness sake, I would bet we all even know water is wet!!

If you knew then why did you post this?

Why would you perpetuate something that is very obvious to be wrong ?

Content snipped

The sun according to astrophysists has absolutely nothing to do with the changes in temperatures.

[baccalieu]

I always liked the library to the point I wished they had a snack bar there. My card is up to date.
People think they are to good to be seen there and sit at home in front of the computer, but you can bet the people who write programs use the library keep their cards up to date.

Some libraries are much better than others and include
snack bars but if you like the feel and smell of books, by
all means visit them.
I have access to numerous online databases through the Ottawa
library and I can usually find what I want without leaving my computer.

[bluelady]

If you knew then why did you post this?

Why would you perpetuate something that is very obvious to be wrong ?

I did explain, remember?? " Please note I said changes......Perhaps it should have read "the recent climate changes the world is experiencing" But hey, I assumed most people following the discussion were intelligent enough to figure out what I meant and accidently left out. Sorry, I will make allowances next time"

Perhaps, spelling it out clearly and exactly for you, will help with the comprehension problem. To perpetuate is to continue and that I did not do. Here you go, spelt out exactly especially for you.

"The lack of sun spots, according to astrophysists has absolutely nothing to do with the earth's climate changes or recent changes in global temperatures"

[Dana]

And I also pointed out that this is the first time ever that such changes are occurring in a matter of a couple hundred years!!. These events have previously taken much longer. So what is different, this time?? Could it possibly be, that we humans have spread over the face of the earth like a plague.


Yes BlueLady,

And it is tons and tonnes of pollution we have put into the earth's atmosphere since industrialization began while we have been chipping away, acre by hectare of those natural air scrubbers called tropical rain forests.

Surely common sense must tell us that something's gotta give?

Math and I are not comfortable with each other and this sort of math certainly does not make it more comprehensible as to why there's anyone left who can't see it.

All world governments (except Russia? as per above article) are on board. I guess it could all be another money making conspiracy venture to wrest the rest of the money from the middle class but I don't really believe that as this is a matter of life and suffering for millions.

Sunspots make things hotter don't they? (dyslexia ?)
If that's so then we ought to be in for some warm summers when they do reappear, as well as our northern lights.

D

[bluelady]

Thanks dana. I was beginning to think I was whistling in the wind. I am always stunned by those who think humans don't make a difference to Mum earth. Geez, I am a farmer and always confronted by the action vs reaction on the land. If there are a multitude of those ignorant enough to feel what they do is negligible, I fear for our planet!!

[Justicette]

Bluelady -

I seldom post when someone has already made the same points I would make.

By no means were you whistling in the wind. I would guess most of us simply agree with you and can't think of any way to say what you said any better!!

IMHO, those who deny man made global change/warming have a vested interest in continuing to be selfish and self absorbed.

as Shakespeare said, "Methinks she doth protest too much."

[Dennis The Menac...]

Blulady, you're confusing one person with another.

This quote is full of BS
"The sun according to astrophysists has absolutely nothing to do with the changes in temperatures."

and

because you posted it with no disclaimer it appeared as those you believed the sentence.

IMO, the Sun and Sun Dogs has Everything to do with temperature change on Earth

[Brandon]

Causes of climate change

Introduction

Factors that influence the Earth's climate. The basic components that influence the state of the Earth's climatic system.
Changes in the state of this system can occur externally (from extraterrestrial systems) or internally (from ocean, atmosphere and land systems) through any one of the described components. For example, an external change may involve a variation in the sun's output which would externally vary the amount of solar radiation received by the Earth's atmosphere and surface. Internal variations in the Earth's climatic system may be caused by changes in the concentrations of atmospheric gases, mountain building, volcanic emissions, and changes in surface or atmospheric reflectivity (albedo).
The work of climatologists has found evidence to suggest that only a limited number of factors are primarily responsible for most of the past episodes of climate change on the Earth. These factors include:
Variations in the Earth's orbital characteristics.
Atmospheric carbon dioxide variations.
Volcanic eruptions
Variations in solar output.

Variations in the Earth's Orbital Characteristics

The Milankovitch theory suggests that normal cyclical variations in three of the Earth's orbital characteristics is probably responsible for some past climatic change. The basic idea behind this theory assumes that over time these three cyclic events vary the amount of solar radiation that is received on the Earth's surface.
The first cyclical variation, known as eccentricity, controls the shape of the Earth's orbit around the sun. The orbit gradually changes from being elliptical to being nearly circular and then back to elliptical in a period of about 100,000 years. The greater the eccentricity of the orbit (i.e., the more elliptical it is), the greater the variation in solar energy received at the top of the atmosphere between the Earth's closest (perihelion) and farthest (aphelion) approach to the sun. Currently, the Earth is experiencing a period of low eccentricity. The difference in the Earth's distance from the sun between perihelion and aphelion (which is only about 3%) is responsible for approximately a 7% variation in the amount of solar energy received at the top of the atmosphere. When the difference in this distance is at its maximum (9%), the difference in solar energy received is about 20%.
The second cyclical variation results from the fact that as the Earth rotates on its polar axis, it wobbles like a spinning top changing the orbital timing of the equinoxes and solstices (see Figure 2). This effect is known as the precession of the equinox. The precession of the equinox has a cycle of approximately 26,000 years. The Earth is closer to the sun in January (perihelion) and farther away in July (aphelion) at the present time. Because of precession, the reverse will be true in 13,000 years and the Earth will then be closer to the sun in July (illustration B, Figure 2). This means, of course, that if everything else remains constant, 13,000 years from now seasonal variations in the Northern Hemisphere should be greater than at present (colder winters and warmer summers) because of the closer proximity of the Earth to the sun.
The third cyclical variation is related to the changes in the tilt (obliquity) of the Earth's axis of rotation over a 41,000 year period. During the 41,000 year cycle the tilt can deviate from approximately 22.5 to 24.5°. At the present time, the tilt of the Earth's axis is 23.5°. When the tilt is small there is less climatic variation between the summer and winter seasons in the middle and high latitudes. Winters tend to be milder and summers cooler. Warmer winters allow for more snow to fall in the high-latitude regions. When the atmosphere is warmer it has a greater ability to hold water vapor and therefore more snow is produced at areas of frontal or orographic uplift. Cooler summers cause snow and ice to accumulate on the Earth's surface because less of this frozen water is melted. Thus, the net effect of a smaller tilt would be more extensive formation of glaciers in the polar latitudes.
Periods of a larger tilt result in greater seasonal climatic variation in the middle and high latitudes. At these times, winters tend to be colder and summers warmer. Colder winters produce less snow because of lower atmospheric temperatures. As a result, less snow and ice accumulates on the ground surface. Moreover, the warmer summers produced by the larger tilt provide additional energy to melt and evaporate the snow that fell and accumulated during the winter months. In conclusion, glaciers in the polar regions should be generally receding, with other contributing factors constant, during this part of the obliquity cycle.
Computer models and historical evidence suggest that the Milankovitch cycles exert their greatest cooling and warming influence when the troughs and peaks of all three cycles coincide with each other.

Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Variations

Studies of long-term climate change have discovered a connection between the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and mean global temperature. Carbon dioxide is one of the more important gases responsible for the greenhouse effect. Certain atmospheric gases, like carbon dioxide, water vapor and methane, are able to alter the energy balance of the Earth by being able to absorb longwave radiation emitted from the Earth's surface. The net result of this process and the re-emission of longwave back to the Earth's surface increases the quantity of heat energy in the Earth's climatic system. Without the greenhouse effect, the average global temperature of the Earth would be a cold -18° Celsius rather than the present 15° Celsius.
Researchers of the 1970s CLIMAP project found strong evidence in deep-ocean sediments of variations in the Earth's global temperature during the past several hundred thousand years of the Earth's history. Other subsequent studies have confirmed these findings and have discovered that these temperature variations were closely correlated to the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and variations in solar radiation received by the planet as controlled by the Milankovitch cycles. Measurements indicated that atmospheric carbon dioxide levels were about 30% lower during colder glacial periods. It was also theorized that the oceans were a major store of carbon dioxide and that they controlled the movement of this gas to and from the atmosphere. The amount of carbon dioxide that can be held in oceans is a function of temperature (Not the other way around). Carbon dioxide is released from the oceans when global temperatures become warmer and diffuses into the ocean when temperatures are cooler. Initial changes in global temperature were triggered by changes in received solar radiation by the Earth through the Milankovitch cycles. The increase in carbon dioxide then amplified the global warming by enhancing the greenhouse effect.

Again note that the amount of carbon dioxide that can be held in the atmosphere only increases AFTER other factors have caused the increases in global temperature.

[bluelady]

Well, it seems the argument has at least gone from total denial of something happening to our environment......... to everyone trying to promote their favourite scientific explanation about the causes. I suppose that is some progress.

It is now about whether we attempt to modify whatever is happening. I am not sure of the reasons that direct individuals towards one view or the other. It certainly isn't the opinion of scientists, as there is as much confusion amongst those as there is amongst the average joe. I suspect it may have some connection to giving up the favoured position of the wealthy 1/3 of the world, and the possible cost to the pocketbook.

If we do nothing, we give the insect world a step up to the dominant species spot.

I do note that those included in the large lists of "scientists" against the warming theory, include in the list, petroleum geologists, economists, engineers, meteorologists, TV weathermen (44 of them) Oh, and out of 400, 84 of these people, took industry money from such Companies as Exxon.

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental...ntists-46011008

Brandon, Link and author on what you posted please. It is not exactly a modern theory, nor has it been proven, in fact quite the opposite. It depends on conditions, no longer extant.

[teagranny]

I repeat, again, no one is denying that something is happening, the question is whether or not man is responsible for it, and can he do anything about it. "Deniers" are just skeptics, they don't accept that nature and natural cycles have nothing to do with it.

Climate has always been changing, always will, species come and go, always will.

People might believe that man made fossil fuels maybe the sole cause of climate change but. the reality is not that cut and dried. There are many other gases that are produced naturally. e.g. CH4, volcanic eruptions along with sun spots etc. etc.

[bluelady]

IMO, the Sun and Sun Dogs has Everything to do with temperature change on Earth

Your opinion as noted. This may ease your mind somewhat - sun spot/flares as of today.



SPACE WEATHER
NOAA Forecasts

Updated at: 2010 Jan 08 2201 UTC

FLARE

0-24 hr

24-48 hr

CLASS M

01 %

01 %

CLASS X

01 %

01 %

Geomagnetic Storms:
Probabilities for significant disturbances in Earth's magnetic field are given for three activity levels: active, minor storm, severe storm Updated at: 2010 Jan 08 2201 UTC Mid-latitudes

0-24 hr

24-48 hr

ACTIVE

05 %

05 %

MINOR

01 %

01 %

SEVERE

01 %

01 %

High latitudes

0-24 hr

24-48 hr

ACTIVE

05 %

05 %

MINOR

01 %

01 %

SEVERE

01 %

01 %

http://spaceweather.com/swpod2010/08jan10/...9ftctbhulajlr50

"A welcome view of the sun on a cold January day reveals the remains of AR11035 still alive and kicking," says Lawrence.

Beneath the waving filaments and bright magnetic froth ("plage"), a dark core is coelescing in the heart of the active region. That makes it a genuine sunspot again. NOAA has re-numbered the region "1040," but we will continue to refer to it by its original name, "1035." It is, after all, an old friend.

[awake]

When frost formed on grapes they made ICE WINE ,there are icicles hanging from the grapefruit on the trees . Blue will come up with something for her's while she is getting a Florida tan!
We have very good weather here in Newfie.

[campy]

Awake: Brake is good. But I suspect you meant BREAK . Yes? No ?

Actually Brake would be better for all around.

[teagranny]

There was an article a couple of days ago which I didn't save about too many polar bears, but today's is a good one.

The mini-ice age starts here
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art...tarts-here.html

The bitter winter afflicting much of the Northern Hemisphere is only the start of a global trend towards cooler weather that is likely to last for 20 or 30 years, say some of the world’s most eminent climate scientists.

Their predictions – based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans – challenge some of the global warming orthodoxy’s most deeply cherished beliefs, such as the claim that the North Pole will be free of ice in
summer by 2013.

According to the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado, Arctic summer sea ice has increased by 409,000 square miles, or 26 per cent, since 2007 – and even the most committed global warming activists do not dispute this

[baccalieu]

As there are so many different climate change predictions out there
its far from settled and its still a question of who is right.

Here are a few snippets from an article of May 8, 2005

"CLIMATE change researchers have detected the first signs of a slowdown in the
Gulf Stream — the mighty ocean current that keeps Britain and Europe from freezing.
They have found that one of the “engines” driving the Gulf Stream — the sinking of
supercooled water in the Greenland Sea — has weakened to less than a quarter of its
former strength.

One possibility is that Europe will freeze; another is that the slowing of the Gulf Stream
may keep Europe cool as global warming heats the rest of the world — but with more
extremes of weather."

EDIT
The paragraph below from the Dailymail article, I suspect is
cherry picking as reports from NSIDC in October 2009
and January 5, 2010 state a different thing.

Daily mail:
According to the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado, Arctic summer sea ice has increased by 409,000 square miles, or 26 per cent, since 2007 – and even the most committed global warming activists do not dispute this.

NSDIC:
This is a press release from the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC), which is part of the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences at the University of Colorado at Boulder.

At the end of the Arctic summer, more ice cover remained this year than during the previous record-setting low years of 2007 and 2008. However, sea ice has not recovered to previous levels. September sea ice extent was the third lowest since the start of satellite records in 1979, and the past five years have seen the five lowest ice extents in the satellite record.

But most of the 2009 September Arctic sea ice is thin first- or second-year ice, rather than thicker, multi-year ice that used to dominate the region, said Meier.